Almost Brothers Podcast
Whats up whats up whats up.. welcome to your new favorite podcast. Join your hosts Michael, Richard, and Tyler as we discuss God, church, life, and the journey through this crazy world. Get away from the stresses of life with this podcast. We will be hitting on various topics from sports, to life with Christ.
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Almost Brothers Podcast
When Leaders Stack Chairs, Churches Grow Together
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The walls separating churches often seem to rebuild faster than we can tear them down. Why is that? In this raw, unfiltered conversation, we dig into what keeps faith communities divided and how true servant leadership might be the answer.
Our guest Andrew Houltzhouser joins us as we explore how unity breaks down when church leaders prioritize status over service. "It's like we tear down a wall and within six months, the new wall has barbed wire on top," we observe. Most troubling? The barrier to togetherness often starts in the pulpit, not the pews.
We share personal stories about navigating relationships with people completely different from ourselves - from marriages between opposites to ministry partnerships that shouldn't work on paper but thrive in practice. The common thread? Humility. Leaders who vacuum floors, stack chairs, and mow lawns create cultures where everyone serves because they've witnessed authentic service from the top down.
The conversation takes a fascinating turn as we contrast formally educated ministers with those who learned by doing. While seminary provides valuable knowledge, we've observed that some of the most effective church leaders are those who "stacked chairs for years" before taking leadership positions - they understand service because they've lived it. This isn't about dismissing education but recognizing that credentials without humility create division rather than unity.
Perhaps most powerful is our examination of surface-level connections versus deep, sustained relationships. Churches often unite for conferences and special events but fail to maintain those connections afterward. As one of us puts it: "We're not walking together, we're walking the same way and every now and then bumping into each other."
Want to experience what true togetherness looks like in action? Join us for Together Conference 2025, where we're putting these principles into practice. In the meantime, how might your leadership approach change if you focused less on titles and more on towels?
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Podcast Intro with Ratmaster Stupid
Speaker 1There he goes again, just Ratmaster stupid.
Speaker 2Oh gosh, I wasn't ready for that. Not, ratmaster, stupid that was hurtful Right. Ratmaster, stupid on the ones and twos. I thought it was good. We'll see you next time. You know, sometimes you just want to hear the whole song what about that new song that we're going to be getting? The new song that we're going to be getting the intro music that somebody again I've been asking what like?
Speaker 3what do y'all want like? You're a songwriter, figure it out, right, it is hey, andrew, I want you to make something for me specifically, but I'm not going to tell you what I want isn't he on this podcast?
Speaker 2we're not married what's up, what's up, what's up, what's everybody? Welcome back to a brand new episode of the Almost Brothers podcast. Here with me. As always, we got Ty Ty Do it.
Together Conference and Friendship Origins
Speaker 1Richie Rich, how's it going? He's at a loss for words, all right.
Speaker 2And today we got our speaker for tonight at Together Conference, 2025, night number three Andrew Holtshausen. Wow.
Speaker 4Not even close.
Speaker 2Not even close. Andrew Holtsenshire.
Speaker 3Now you're Irish.
Speaker 1Andrew Hesselhoff, andrew.
Speaker 3Hesselhoff, and now you're a lifeguard.
Speaker 4You know, never mind, andrew, I'll let that this is a Christian podcast, you know, nevermind andrew this is a christian podcast.
Speaker 3I'll just let that just go how you doing, I'm good when the folks never knew who he actually was andrew holtzhauser still it's. You stuttered a little bit, you hesitated we do that literally to reevaluate our friendship.
Speaker 1We do that literally every week when we're on this podcast, so don't worry about it.
Speaker 3Andrew's over here like he really doesn't know my name, Andrew. He really doesn't.
Speaker 2Haltstein, yes.
Speaker 3What.
Speaker 4It's still German, it's close.
Speaker 3Yeah, I thought Stein was Jewish.
Speaker 2A lot of Jews came out of Germany. There, tyler, you right, would you pick up a history?
Speaker 3book. It was a bad time for him, though, you think.
Speaker 4You gotta give it to him. He's a marine.
Speaker 2That's a good point. 10.
Speaker 3November 1776.
Speaker 2What.
Speaker 3That's my history.
Speaker 4That's all he remembers. I don't know what he said. I don't think.
Speaker 1Tavern Yep, that's my history, oh, that's your history. That's all he remembers.
Speaker 2I don't know what he said, so I don't think he knows what he said at this point. I don't think he really knows either. I do. 10 November.
Speaker 3Hey, all my Marines out there, you know what I'm saying. 10 November 1776, 10 Tavern, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.
Speaker 2Something like that, something like that.
Speaker 1Hey, tylerler, good talk good, thank you, super good talk here, now we know why he taught music.
Speaker 2He's got a degree yeah andrew, he's got a.
Speaker 3He's got a music I had, I've, I had, uh, quite a number of kids asking me to help them with like their other classes, and I tell them listen, there's a reason I only teach music that's right.
Speaker 1Don't come to the.
Speaker 3Yeah, I said uh, especially there's one kid with math said don't get mad at me when this is wrong, because because it will be. Here's your options to be wrong here's your option options for math, a science teacher, social studies, music, math teacher, art teacher. Which one do you think? And they said oh, the music teacher home economics. You gotta know, that's who I'm going to the librarian like, oh, we're going to the nurse, like which one can help or like which one like I.
Speaker 4I like the, the, the home ec teacher. Like I don't care about math. But can I?
Speaker 2have a brownie, right right, ours. Who is the home ec teacher right now, isn't it? Uh, miss beard, is that right, I think?
Speaker 3I think it. I think it was when I was teaching High school was almost 20 years ago. I don't know who's there, I mean, that's true. 10 years.
Speaker 2For me, it is my 20 year anniversary of school, or 20. Dang.
Speaker 1What's it called? I mean sorry, I saw that coming in my mind.
Speaker 2What's it called 20 year reunion?
Speaker 4what's it called?
Speaker 220 year reunion. 20 year reunion will be this year, so that means mine will be. Oh yeah exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1Let's do the math, richard class of 96 I don't know what that I wasn't even born. That's not helpful. That's 20 shut up.
Speaker 4That's 29 years, because I'm 28 and I was born in 97 96 wow, it's 29 years michael and I were in diapers andrew, I don't need your negativity, y'all don't want to know where I was wait, I don't know.
Speaker 2Oh, it took me a second. I was like what, what do you mean where you are? Oh gosh, oh no. Oh dang, I thought you were saying something, I didn't know what. Rich is over here raising his hands.
Speaker 1I got a question.
Speaker 2That's so funny.
Speaker 4We can't tell you where they come from.
Speaker 2These last few nights we've been talking about being together, like what it means to be together.
Speaker 1That's what Tyler's talking about being together, like what it what it means to be together. That's what tyler's talking about.
Speaker 3No, oh no, no, no no together conference checkers, conference, same thing that's not so.
Speaker 2We've been talking about just together and and we were talking earlier on the phone about how our friendship we don't know where it started or when it started.
Speaker 4No, we don't have a what I called earlier an origin story.
Speaker 3Oh snap, yeah, Were y'all friends before we knew each other.
Speaker 4I don't know.
Speaker 3No.
Speaker 4No.
Speaker 3No.
Speaker 2No, no Cause y'all. Well, yeah, maybe it's around that same time.
Speaker 3Cause we were started. No, no, well, yeah, maybe it's around that same time. Was it 23? 22? I think it was 23. It was before then.
Speaker 4It was a little before then Somewhere, but I got COVID and woke up and Michael Simmons was my friend, just got a friend request and he's calling you and you're engaging in the conversation.
Speaker 2For real Like it was.
Speaker 4Gets off the phone.
Speaker 3Wait, who was that guy?
Speaker 4Yeah.
Speaker 3Right. For some reason I know everything about him.
Speaker 4I don't know. It's like I woke up in the Twilight Zone. It's like, oh, here's a new friend.
Speaker 3Yeah, we had dinner the other night.
Speaker 1It's a good way to wake up, I guess. Yeah, yeah, better to wake up with one than without, yeah, depending on the friend.
Speaker 2That's right, that's so true, yeah, so what is what is a relationship in your life where someone kind of because me and you, we, we for the most part we have kind of the same likes and the same things that you know that we, that we enjoy. But what is something? That where we talked to pastor steven about this last night, about, like, where you, you're just so totally opposite of one another but yet you get along and you mesh well and you come together and it's like you had to kind of get out of your comfort zone and meet on their terms and on their side, where it's like, man, like I can't believe we're friends, we got nothing in common.
Speaker 4Um y'all are going to judge me.
Speaker 2Oh, oh, we common um y'all are gonna judge me, uh-oh, uh-oh, that's, we judge you anyway so, yeah, that's a good start. Righteously, my wife yeah, oh, there you go yeah like yeah, we're totally complete oh, yeah, yeah opposites.
Speaker 4I mean, I don't know if you can see it when we're yep, oh, that's my phone.
Opposite Personalities in Relationships
Speaker 2Man, the your phone star wars hold up, I got it. You can do it from there, yeah yeah, opposites in absolutely every way right and it's, and it just works and it, it, yeah like we.
Speaker 4We do ministry well together. We do marriage well together for the most part um.
Speaker 2We raise children well together, but that's it yeah in every other way.
Speaker 4we're're like night and day, like we cannot grocery shop together.
Speaker 3We can't paint a room together.
Speaker 2That's funny yeah.
Speaker 4We can't mow the like. We really can't.
Speaker 2You ever seen like the couples that have like a business together? I'm like I don't know. I don't know if I could do that. No, no.
Speaker 4Most of the time we do good to have a bed together, right together, right right? I don't know about that. We we worked in the same building for a year. Two years we drove separate cars because we have completely opposite taste in music. She likes to talk to her mom all the way to work, and that's this. I just I don't want to talk to my mother-in-law at seven o'clock in the morning, like we just yeah. Like we, still to this day, we don't ride to church together.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 4Because I got to be there like 30 minutes before the service starts, or, you know, as the pastor, I need to be there like an hour before. I got stuff I need to be doing and staying later. Yes, and she's. If it starts at 6 o'clock tonight, I guarantee you we drove separate Starts at 6. She might be here by 5.57.
Speaker 1Right.
Speaker 4She's probably going to be running in the door as Tyler starts the worship. Yep oh yeah, we're just we.
Speaker 3Y'all were pretty, she was pretty. Did y'all ride together on Friday? Yes, she was pretty. Uh, did y'all ride together on friday? Yes, I was gonna say y'all pretty, y'all. I saw her there.
Speaker 4I saw her before I saw you we rode together on friday only because on thursday she realized the tags on her fan were right, yeah, she got those fixed today.
Speaker 1That is a jamie simmons.
Speaker 4Yeah, yeah she got them fixed today, so that's why we drove separate tonight it's like oh, my tags expired.
Speaker 2Oh, when they expired Seven years ago.
Speaker 4Yeah, when did they expire? Remember the Alamo Right?
Speaker 1You know how Jamie knows when her tags are expired when she gets pulled over? I swear dude.
Speaker 2Like literally I'm like babe really yeah, and Aaliyah's kind of the same way Babe really yeah. And Aaliyah is kind of the same way. She took that up, you know the same where it's just like babe, come on now, Just stay on top of this, Come on and you walk out to the car and there's this little sticker yeah, it tells you the.
Speaker 4It just has the year on it.
Speaker 2Yeah, which I think me and Jamie are the same way. We're very, very polar opposites in a lot of ways, like I'm kind of a geek and she's kind of not so like a lot of the stuff that I'm into.
Speaker 4uh, she like okay, you know what, let's watch it, it's fine yeah, see, kelsey won't even watch it yeah we've been together almost 20 years and I still haven't got to watch a single star wars movie see, that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2What's wrong with women?
Speaker 3now 100 the problem michael would be contacting a lawyer at that point.
Speaker 2Man like look okay, yeah, harry potter, we can do yeah, but that's like yeah, yeah, I can't get her into lord of the rings that should be in the like yeah, like that's why we have two tvs which I get jamie to watch it like one time, like she'll watch it one time, but then that's it see, I'm yeah, just just the one time I had to watch still Magnolia's.
Speaker 1You can watch. I like still Magnolia's. That was a good movie. There's he's, so he don't even know what button to hit.
Speaker 2I was like I don't even know what to say with that like is there one to make a?
Speaker 3rainbow on the screen right wow, put a filter on where he's go. He's got a little tiara on him, man, sorry oh, the guy that watches project runway I watch that because jamie likes it.
Speaker 1That's a lie you're the one that started watching it.
Speaker 2That's not true.
Speaker 3He's like I'm only watching it because Jamie likes it, and she's not even there.
Speaker 1You ever do that with your kids, like you put a movie or a TV show on for them and then look up and they're gone and you're still watching.
Speaker 2Oh yeah, you're 45 minutes into the movie and it's like I got to. I gotta see what happens now.
Speaker 4I'm totally invested to see if Mickey and the crew can figure it out.
Speaker 2When did they leave?
Speaker 4wait a second we're going all the way they'll be asleep for us.
Speaker 2They're asleep and we're just into it. I saw a TikTok.
Speaker 3That was like when you're in your 30s and you put on a TV show for your kid and you're trying to clean the house. And it was just a. It was just her just standing next to a vacuum cleaner it wasn't running and she's just watching bluey yep, that's right.
Speaker 1I am fairly certain that that's all tyler does is watch tiktok like he doesn't even work it's a lot it's. I saw a tiktok.
Speaker 2I saw a tiktok I saw a tiktok which you don't have to spend a lot of time I guess on it. You know, you really don't wait a second quick little time, but he can't remember his own name, but he can remember every tiktok.
Speaker 4Listen, I can't remember anything, that's true listen that's a good maybe we should put our any announcement that we need to remember.
Speaker 3We're gonna make a tiktok.
Breaking Down Church Walls
Speaker 2Don't you speak ill of eduardo over here well, yeah, and, and you know, again, segueing back into together, like it seems harder and harder as the years go by to get people to cross those lines of division. You know, and that's the whole point of together, conferences to bring churches together, to bring people together that may think a little differently, but for the most we've got more in common than we do differently. So it's like trying to bring people together and it seems just harder and harder every year. It's like people get in their comfort zones, they get in their easy spots and they don't want to move from there. Have you dealt with that? You've been in ministry for a long time.
Speaker 4It's like we tear down a wall and the churches come together and within six months, the new wall has barbed wire on top, and then the next year you tear it down again, and then the next year it's reinforced with steel and the barbed wire's on top. It's like every time you tear down a wall, a new one comes.
Speaker 4And it's simply because what I see is people, you're right, they get comfortable, yeah, they get complacent, and that's a whole half of the sermon for tonight. Is you want to go to right here? And then that's it.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 4Like we put up this limit and for every Christian, for every church, that limit, that spot is different. But we have this point where, god, we're going to right here. But as soon as we get right here, I'm done, because at this point and it's the big key, at this point I lose control. Right At this point I've got to surrender and let him, and I don't want to go to that point.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 4Because once I go to that point, things start happening that I don't like. I don't want to get out there, I don't want to go into the deep water. I want to stay on the shallow end because at least up here, when I see the wave of glory coming, I can run back to my safe spot.
Speaker 1That's a good analogy.
Speaker 2I like that.
Speaker 4Well then, you're going to love the sermon.
Speaker 1Deep talk water, I'm sure.
Speaker 4I will, but then I don't have. But yeah, I can control what happens.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 4When you tear down that wall. You know, not every church does worship the same way, right, even within the same. I mean, I don't know, I forget how many churches are in the Moark Association, but even within this association of general Baptist churches every church you walk into in some way is different and they do something a little different, but it works for them.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 4And if it's working for them, maybe it would work here, right, like that. That's the point is what can we learn from them? But I think what happens is we come together and we get this emotional high of yeah, this is great, this is good, but we don't take the time in the end, to learn from one another. Yeah, so then when we go back next year we're more hard-headed, because the only thing we learned was it felt good in the moment right we're we're living for that momentary gratification.
Speaker 2We're not looking for the long-term growth that we can get from each other yeah, and the long-term connection, you know, and not just, hey, we'll see you next year, yeah, you know we'll see you. You know you go to, you know, uh, something that everybody meets at and you see everybody and it's a great time, and then it's like, all right, see you next year, instead of going, hey, let's connect, let's, let's walk through this thing together it's like a family reunion right you go to that once a year you see your cousins and uncles and aunts and it's like every year.
Speaker 1It's like man. We need to try and stay in touch more we need to and a month goes by and that's it that you don't. You don't ever hear from them until the next one, and it's the same thing over and over again.
Speaker 4You see what they're doing on facebook right right on instagram and that's enough.
Speaker 2That's enough connection for us.
Speaker 4You know, is is just meeting up, you know, and and yeah, and just keeping up with them. Maybe they'll have something that we can maybe get involved in later, right, yeah, and not be walking.
Speaker 2And that bugs me too is when, okay, it's time to get connected, when something big is going on, but I'm not going to connect with them any other time, right, you know, it's that. Pop my head up. When it's, oh, okay, it's conference time, everybody comes together and then it's like, yeah, but we had a prayer meeting that we needed to pray over something and we're calling out everybody to come. Oh, no, I can't go to that. I'll go to the big things, but not, you know, I'll go to the birthday parties and the anniversaries and the big celebrations, but I won't walk with you in a tough day in a tough week.
Speaker 4And it's like we need to be connected in all the things we're not walking together.
Speaker 1Yeah, we're walking the same way and every now and then we're bumping into each other yeah, right, and we, and we have, and the church has trained christians to do that, to to not share when you're struggling, to not share when you need help, when because god forbid you'd be struggling with a sin that you tell your brothers and sisters about because you may get judged or shunned or whatever the case may be.
Leadership Pride vs. Servant Humility
Speaker 4But we've got to be there for each other and that's the thing, and that's why it's going to continue to be a problem, because it's not a people in the pew problem. Yeah, it's. Who's in the pulpit?
Speaker 2Right.
Speaker 4It's definitely a leadership problem.
Speaker 3Yeah.
Speaker 4And you can preach all day long to the people in the pews. The hardest people to preach to are the ones that are in the pulpit.
Speaker 2Oh yeah, and they think they've got it all together 100%, and we talked about that this afternoon.
Speaker 4We can learn from each other even just in our delivery of our sermons. We all do it differently, but we can learn from each other in different methods and different ways that we do things, different methods and different ways that we do things, but going and looking at that person and saying your church is failing and it's starting up here.
Speaker 4You can give an altar call and everybody in the church is going to come forward and the pastor is just going to go pray with them and then go sit down, because it's never going to hit with him, right.
Speaker 2Yeah, and it starts and ends with you, like everything flows downward from the pulpit because God's not going to force his way into your church. You know, the spirit is subject to the profit of the area. So it starts and ends with you. And most pastors don't like that accountability. They want to be able to say what they want, do what they want. Everybody's got to believe him, everybody's got to trust him. Because I'm the head of this. No, that's not how it goes. You know you, because I'm the head of this. No, that's not how it goes.
Speaker 2You should be held more accountable than anybody in the church. Why? Because that's what the Bible says. We're going to be held to a higher standard. But it reminds me of like a sports team, where people come in when it's championship time, when it's playoff time, when it's the great time, everybody comes in. And I'm a fan and I love it, and you can't fully celebrate and enjoy that moment unless you've been in the in the hard times and in the tough times, you know. But we want to jump in when somebody's doing something good and oh, yay, here I'm here, here I am you know how much we hear that because we're a diehard kansas city chiefs fans who's we my whole family.
Speaker 2Oh okay, and we don't lump me into that I was just like, okay, hold on, who's we hold on? I know I'm still praying for you yeah.
Speaker 4But we were way back when we won a game, a season or two games, to see like we. We held on, we held our ground. Then, all of a sudden, we start winning championships. Yeah, it's like where did, where did y'all come? Now I drive through the neighborhood and there's like 18 Chiefs flags during football season. I'm like last year you were a Packers fan.
Speaker 2And that is exactly a good analogy for the church. You get lumped in with the people when it's exciting time, when it's oh, we had 50 people baptized today and everybody jumps on that bandwagon of this is the exciting thing going on, but the same people didn't want to be there when it was tough time when it was get in the trenches time and you get lumped into that like no, I've been here, I've been here, I've been in the valleys, I've been doing this, I it isn't.
Speaker 2You know, oh, it's time to come, or you know it's. It's like you see these pastors blow up online or whatever and it's like, oh, you know, they were overnight success. No, a lot of these guys spent years and years, decades and decades doing it and in the culture we live in, we think everything is yeah, is fast.
Speaker 3Ain't nobody putting anyone on that kind of pedestal, that quick right, especially a church.
Speaker 1At least I would hope they wouldn't yeah, I remember a couple years ago they had that uh, big revival blow up, but I can't remember the name of the college uh, hasbury, yes hasbury, thank you. And uh, it was 100 student led and you know, once it became a big deal, there were all these big preachers and singers that wanted to come out and be a part of it and they said no, this is this is not about no.
Speaker 2Oh yeah, they said like like yeah, the names. They were like hey, is there anything that I can do to help? Is there anything? And it's like no, who are you Like? Who do you think you are?
Speaker 2Yeah, 10,000 foot mansion asleep, or like where were you at two months before that, when this little bitty congregation was gathering together and you didn't want to offer anything to them? But now, all of a sudden, when they're nationwide, you want to jump in and, oh, it's time to you know. It's like come on now, what are we doing and not saying? Those people with the big churches and blah, blah, blah, haven't done those things, but it seems like we want to jump and ride the coattail of what's cool now, right, and what's in now and what's hip now.
Speaker 2And it drives me crazy because those of us that have been in it and battling and been in it and been in it and been in it, get lumped in. Oh, you just want to be a part of it, because this is going on. No, I've been a part of it, right on it. No, I've been a part of it, right, you know I've been here, right, it's like I've, you know, I've cleaned my toilets, I've got. I've washed my floors, I've. You know it's like. No, it's not. Everybody thinks like that, you know. And and it scares people, because I think it scares both sides from coming together you've got the side that only want to be there when it's popping off and you've got the side that think it's all about the grind and and anything that's big has to be bad. Yeah, you know. So they don't want to see, they don't want to meet each other in the middle, you know.
Speaker 4And and as far as pastors goes, you have two different types of pastors. You have the one that stacked chairs for years and just learned.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 4And you have the one that went straight to seminary and got educated. I have the degree. I'm the man, the guy over here that spent his whole life stacking chairs. Even if he does go to seminary, he's not going to have that attitude because he started at the bottom. And I don't want to say bottom, because the chair stacker is the bottom, but he didn't walk in and walk into the pulpit. He had to grow and that person sticks around when there's 50 people and is still there when there's 300.
Speaker 1And that's true in church or in secular circles, at a company or whatever. If you know what it is to earn that if you're the CEO now and you started in the mailroom, you are going to care more for that company than if daddy handed it to you. Right, absolutely?
Speaker 2And you're going to remember where you came from. You're going to remember those moments. You're going to care more for that company than if daddy handed it to you. Right, absolutely. And you're going to remember where you came from. You're going to remember those moments. You're going to remember the hard times and you're going to, for the most part, remember those things. You know, you see, all these guys that you know they fall into this and fall into that. Most of them are like that.
Speaker 2They went to school, they walked into a pulpit after they graduated, because everybody needs somebody who graduated because apparently that's the only people that could do ministry, even though a lot of us, we you know how we learn to do ministry. By doing ministry, it's like I mean, well, what is your school?
Speaker 4it's 25 years of doing it right, you know it's it's just so many churches that if the apostle paul literally walked in, oh gosh, yeah, let me grab a pen and pencil real quick, you're not qualified.
Speaker 2Yeah, where did you go to school? Where did you go to school? Where?
Speaker 4did you? Because it's all about the name and the pedigree. Yeah, the name and the pedigree is what's killing the church. Right, I'm not knocking seminary. I think it's great. Yeah, I would go. Oh, yeah, cause there's a lot of good to come out of it. There's a lot of good to come out of it, so I'm not knocking it in any way whatsoever, but there's so many pastors in pulpits, especially in this little heartland area I don't know about other places, cause this is where I've been my whole ministry- yeah.
Speaker 4But in this area there's so many people that are mama called, daddy, sent educated. Sunday school teachers, yeah, and they're leading whole churches. So when you look at that guy and you say this wall, this problem is your fault.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 4Of course he's not going to receive it Right. Because he's never received correction Right. All he ever received was a diploma and mama saying you're doing the right thing, go do it.
Speaker 3And the and the difference is is just a sense and a level of humility.
Speaker 1Yeah, sense and a level of humility.
Speaker 3That's really all it comes down to Humility and pride.
Speaker 2I think that not to toot Tyler's horn over here.
Speaker 4I knew he would do something.
Speaker 2That's why I paused. I knew he was going to do something. But that's what's so rare about someone like Tyler. Tyler went to school for music.
Speaker 3I'm a unicorn.
Speaker 2But he still. I'm going to take all this back, but he still walks with that humility, walks with that. You know, I want to serve. I'm here to serve. I'm here to serve. That's what's so beautiful about him. And Liv is what I tell people. They're about more than just that stage on when they're singing. They've helped with youth, they've helped with kids, they've helped clean up. They stay late, they come early, they do all the things that goes with it, regardless of how good they are on the stage.
Speaker 4It's so much more to them than that I think what makes them good on the stage is what they do off the stage yes.
Speaker 2And again, I'm not going to look at him because I don't want it like I've got to preach after he's done doing his, so I gotta keep them calm. Yeah, um, and it's cool seeing. And it's cool seeing both sides of these guys, because richard didn't grow up in church, didn't go to school, didn't do those things. So to watch him step into ministry with that whole heart of I'll do whatever needs done and then seeing tyler that goes to school for music it says I'll do whatever needs done is a beautiful dichotomy of the two and how they come from completely different backgrounds but have the same heart, have the right heart, have the right mindset of what to do, and a lot of it is because of your leadership, Mike.
Speaker 1I mean both of us have done ministry under you.
Speaker 3Ooh, that's called common ground.
Speaker 1Coming together. Hey, that's called common ground Coming together.
Speaker 3Hey, oh, my gosh together.
Speaker 1Look at that Unity. It really took him a minute to get that. It did. It's taken him since Friday night, but that is, we have both learned under you.
The Heart of Leadership and Service
Speaker 2That is your culture of serving, that you've taught us and that's what you know and I learned it from right, my pastors and my friends and, and it's just, it's something saying that it's not about me, it's about us right well, I remember when I was younger, my grandma was, I wouldn't say, dragging me to church, but she brought me with chinese food afterwards to go to church, that's all it takes. That's what it is. That's why that's where this started.
Speaker 3That's where it started but no, I would literally like, because she'd, you know, stay after and talk to people, and I'd be like let's go home hungry. I'd be seeing people, you know, cleaning up and stacking chairs and stuff and I'd literally think like why the crap are they here doing stuff? And I remember there was one time where it was back when we were with Remnant and we were I don't know, I think it was we were putting something up. I can't remember.
Speaker 3Something with the ceiling, I guess, maybe like the whatever, and I literally thought wait, I'm doing this now, what?
Speaker 4the crap.
Speaker 3I'm the person that gets on. I'm the person that people are like.
Speaker 1Why is he still here yeah, that's funny, but it's so important it's, it's and it. It really is what tyler said, it's humility, you know, just just swallowing whatever nonsensical pride you think you've earned right and doing what needs to be done. I mean we've. We've literally done everything. I mean it's just, but it has to be done. I mean, and who's going to do it if it's not going to be the people in leadership, right?
Speaker 2and you have to set that bar for those around you, right? You want people to come together. Be somebody who brings people together. Yep, you want people to serve.
Speaker 3Be a servant that's literally the the best way to be a leader. That's kind of like you know, uh me, and live as foster parents with with our kid that we have now. We always tell him we wouldn't tell you to do anything that we wouldn't do ourselves yeah, right, yeah, because it's.
Speaker 2Why would they look at you and go? You don't do that. Like you know, it's hey dude that's always talk about mom. Love her to death.
Speaker 1Don't smoke kids.
Speaker 2I'm like mom, you do realize. Yeah, I know, but I just know how bad it is Do as I say, not as I do. Yeah, and it's like okay, and we all do that. We're all hypocrites.
Speaker 3At one point or another we are.
Speaker 2But you know, it's about setting that bar setting the example.
Speaker 4It's about intentionally not being a hypocrite In some way. You're right, we're all going to fall short of the glory of God, we're all going to miss the mark because we're not perfect, but we don't intentionally do it. I remember when I first became the interim pastor at Kimball. I don't know, I knew the guy that was the pastor before me and he wasn't like this. So I don't know at what point in their story they had a guy that was, but something got spilled on the carpet in the fellowship hall and we were having a dinner or something.
Speaker 3It was something clean.
Speaker 4It was something that a vacuum would pick up, so I just run over to the closet, grab the vacuum cleaner and I just start vacuuming it up. Yeah, and there was like three people that were like freaking out like why?
Speaker 1are you?
Speaker 4vacuuming. Like what, what like? Why are you like? And I'm like, I know how to use a vacuum all right, it's like I got it like y'all were serving people. You were over there folding up chairs and putting tablecloth, like I got this I can use a vacuum cleaner, and it was just.
Speaker 4It was weird for me because that's how I was, like the pastor that I had, I saw him sweep the floors yeah I saw him come in when when the guy that did our yard work was sick with his lawnmower and mow the the churchyard like I saw him doing those things.
Speaker 3Yeah, and so that's just I was like I've heard michael say before, if you want to learn how to lead, serve yeah, absolutely and that's that's one thing. I take uh with myself leading my worship team. I'm always trying to figure out what can I do for them and I always tell them.
Speaker 2If there's anything that I can do, please tell me yeah because I want to do that yeah, because they people listen to what you, but they mimic who you are, so once they see you doing that, they then go. I need to do that.
Speaker 4And it makes them want to do it more.
Speaker 2Yes, 100%.
Speaker 4I always tell people you know, as a pastor I have two roles, and that's to edify and to equip. Most of the time my equipping you is the sermons, the bible studies, the discipleship, that's, that's most of it, yeah. But sometimes my equipping you is I get her early and I turn your classroom light on right. I make copies for you because you can't figure out how to work the stupid copy yeah, yep like I'm equipping you to do your ministry, and that doesn't always look glamorous.
Speaker 4Like me behind the pulpit. Sometimes I need to come mow the yard because you need to be able to get in without walking through knee-high grass Sometimes. I need to come grade the parking lot. That's part of equipping people and it's also showing them what a servant looks like and, like you said, it makes them want to do it more.
Speaker 2When my wife does something for me like that, it makes me, yeah, put that in. It goes in there and it's like and now I'm gonna, I have to one up that I have to do that now?
Speaker 2well, that's without her asking yeah yeah, it like she'll bring me a cup of coffee in the morning and I'm like you didn't have to do that, but stuff like that. It's like she doesn't expect it in return, but it makes me want to now do those things for her and it's like tomorrow I'm going to prepare the coffee and bring it to you.
Speaker 1And you do that and you find out you're just serving each other, serving each other, serving each other and, unfortunately, on the other side of the coin, there are those pastors that expect you to serve them. And they want to eat first at the Sunday dinner Then they. It's crazy. It's a crazy thought process to us, but they're out there.
Speaker 4If I'm eating first, that means I was the first one to leave the sanctuary. I should always be the last one out the door. There is something that God has convicted me about. I should be the first one here and the last one. And I know pastors that aren't that way and I love them and if that's okay for you, that's okay. But not me. I have to be the last one out the door.
Speaker 1There is a pastor in our area that I have heard. I have not seen that they have a throne on the stage for him and the first lady I've seen it with my own eyes.
Speaker 3I've seen a video of a pastor in an old Baptist-type church and he called out a dude that I guess was falling asleep during his sermon. He said you better not fall asleep.
Speaker 2I'm the man of God here. Yeah, I'm somebody. I'm the man of God here, and you don't know that person's past. You don't know what they're going through. I'm the man of God. Yeah, I'm somebody. I'm the man of God here. I'm understanding that, and it's just like and you don't know that person's past, you don't know what they're going through.
Speaker 3You don't know what they're dealing with.
Speaker 2But you also maybe. That dude just got off night shift and was like I need to go to church. That's what I'm saying it's like maybe he's sick, feeling good, maybe he was up all night because he couldn't get his baby to sleep, like you don't know what that dude is going through Maybe you're a terrible preacher and everybody's going to sleep.
Speaker 1Yeah, it's just like.
Speaker 4Well and that goes back, I think we had this conversation earlier today is that person? At that moment, you just became my disciple. Yeah, you couldn't stay awake during the sermon today, so I'm going to pull you to the side separately. Yeah, and I'm going to have that conversation, hey I noticed you're going to sleep. It's cool, it's okay. I'm not mad at you, right? But if you want at some point for me to catch you up on what you missed, yeah come see me yeah, and is everything okay? Like is it?
Speaker 2yeah, you know are you good, is? Is everything in your life okay? You know we've got, we've got some people. I don't know if he's been diagnosed with it, but I know he's talked about it with narcolepsy, but that that could be the case, you know. You just don't know what this person's going through. You know, so they could have some kind of thing with their eyes, where they have to like close their eyes, for you know a certain one.
Speaker 3One thing I've I've kind of really like learning and kept in my mind a lot is you have to get all the information before you form an opinion.
Speaker 2Yeah, yep, because we want to judge people by their actions, but we want them to judge us by what we meant.
Speaker 4Right, yes.
Speaker 2You know well, I can't believe you did that. It's like calm down. Yeah, let's give people some grace here.
Speaker 4The thing about the video video that I saw, because I saw the same one at the end when he went and patted him on the shoulder and said hey, just remember, I love you right like you can say it, but I don't feel that right.
Final Thoughts and Conference Preview
Speaker 3Show it right like show that you love and you're concerned like if that were me, that'd be the last time I went to that church right, yeah I wouldn't go again yeah, I wouldn't no, it's man.
Speaker 2What else y'all have on your heart as we? We gear up for tonight's service? That's it, man nothing feeling new, sir, andrew, what you got I'm ready to roll oh, I'm pumped dude I'm, I'm excited I'm all week long.
Speaker 4Like I love and hate coming director yeah I love this church so much and these people and all week long since Friday. That's ready for Monday night. Ready to hear you preach Monday night, Ready for like they get me so pumped up and I'm so terrified that I'm going to drop the ball, but then I got my confirmation from our conversation this afternoon.
Speaker 2So I'm ready to go drop the mic Now, only if you would get your scriptures and stuff to the it guy hey, listeners, we just want to thank you for your continued support for the almost brothers podcast.
Speaker 1do us a favor and go to your favorite platform and rate us and like us and share with everyone that you know. Thank you so much, love you.
